Dr Kunle Ojeleye is one of Nigeria’s most esteemed intellectuals in the diaspora, embodying dynamism, resilience, and the enterprising Naija spirit. Since relocating to the UK in 1990, he has carved out an illustrious career path, spanning various sectors across the UK and Canada. From holding prominent management positions in local government social housing to spearheading urban regeneration projects, Dr Ojeleye’s professional journey is a testament to his versatility and expertise.
Since 2007, Dr Ojeleye has been deeply involved as a consultant in e-government, e-business, and information technology projects, contributing significantly to advancements in these fields in both the UK and Canada. Despite his extensive industry engagements, Dr. Ojeleye has maintained active involvement in the academic and research community, showcasing his scholarly prowess through a published book and numerous peer-reviewed academic papers.
With a Bachelor of Science Honours degree in International Relations from the University of Ife (now known as Obafemi Awolowo University) in Nigeria, Dr. Ojeleye continued his academic pursuits, obtaining a Master of Arts degree in International Peace and Security, followed by a Doctor of Philosophy degree in War Studies from Kings College, London.
In this exclusive interview with allnaijadiaspora, Dr. Ojeleye graciously shares his remarkable journey and offers invaluable insights into living abroad and making a meaningful impact in the diaspora. Excerpts:
How did your experience as a Nigerian living abroad begin? What factors led you to move overseas?
I finished youth service in 1989.
Stupidly, I put my eggs in one basket regarding graduate admission. Instead of applying to many universities, I chose to apply to the University of Lagos for a master’s degree in international law and diplomacy. I was not admitted, and it was later that I realised the course, out of popularity with the movers and shakers of Nigerian society, was competitive.
Meanwhile, all my classmates who applied to our former Department in Ife were admitted. It meant that during the 1989/90 academic session, whilst they were busy studying for their master’s degree, I had nothing to do.
I kept searching for a job and approached a number of my father’s friends whom I thought could help but nothing came out of the efforts. Meanwhile, my uncle in Kaduna had promised to help get me a visa to the United Kingdom if I wanted to. With the bitter disappointments I experienced searching for something to do in the southwest, I headed back to Kaduna to take up my uncle’s offer and that was how I left Nigeria in November 1990.
What was it like settling into a new country? What were the key issues that defined life when you started?
It was very rough.
The key issues that defined life for me were first, my aspiration to pursue my postgraduate education bearing in mind that at the time I got into the UK, I had admissions into Keele University as well as the University of Toronto to study for a master degree but had neither a scholarship nor someone who could bankroll my education. The second was that I could not forget the two parents and three siblings I left behind, and needed to support them financially in whatever way I could.
You seem to have overcome significant obstacles. How did you manage to climb the corporate ladder as an immigrant?
I started with cleaning a vegetable market at 5 am, moved on to working 9 hours, 6 days a week stock-filling at an Indian shop for £45 a week (my rent being £40 a week for a room), transited to a certified auxiliary nurse (which my friends euphemistically refer to as cleaning a stranger’s shit), to being a security guard, and a cab driver. It was these menial jobs that paid for my master’s degree education in the UK.
In between, I taught myself not just to use a computer including the usage of the Microsoft package of Word, Excel, and PowerPoint, I also got my hands dirty in knowing how to assemble personal computers and troubleshoot technical issues.
My computing skills helped significantly in getting me my first job in the British local government from where I began to develop myself and to rise within the system.
What qualities are necessary for Nigerians abroad to thrive? What opportunities exist for them to maximize their potential overseas?
I would say that a humble and determined spirit is needed to succeed as a Nigerian in Diaspora. Humility to accept that you may have to start from the bottom of the ladder and the preparedness to do all that is legitimate to survive. Determination in keeping a focus on your goals and the ultimate targets you have set yourself and ensuring that challenges of life do not derail you from where you are headed.
In my lifetime, I have derived a significant amount of inspiration from reading the life stories of people like Chief Obafemi Awolowo, Dr Nnamdi Azikwe, etc., and how they were able to weather the storms and vicissitudes of life. Their experiences contributed immensely to my being able to rise above the various challenges of life that could have been drowning.
How crucial are the skills and resources of Nigerians living abroad for sustainable national development in Nigeria and Africa as a whole? How can we best leverage these resources?
Until recently, academic discussion regarding the diaspora has been from the viewpoint of a half-empty glass. Migration out of Nigeria and other African countries, especially of trained and skilled workforce was regarded as a loss to the country impacted and referred to as a “brain drain.” Emphasis has since changed to how the diaspora impact positively on poverty alleviation and development programmes in their respective home countries. The modalities through which Nigerians in the diaspora have engaged with the country have significantly been through financial remittances to support nuclear and extended family members, establishing small businesses, financial contributions to community projects, stimulating the construction industry through private building developments, and collaborative works with local actors to deliver improved services in the health and education sectors. Even though the reality is that most of these activities are on a private, informal, and uncoordinated basis, these various means have been succinctly referred to as the social, financial, and political capitals of the Diaspora.
To harness the resources domiciled in the Nigerian diaspora, the government must not only have a national policy that provides incentives to such people to participate in the country’s development and governance, but it must also develop a framework through which the Diaspora could be used to fill identified gaps towards meeting the developmental needs of the country.
What are your thoughts on how the Nigerian government interacts with its diaspora community? What do you think the government should be doing differently?
Diaspora engagement in Nigeria is nothing to write home about. It seems to me that the government is more interested in the remittances than in many other ways its diaspora population can help in accelerating economic development and growth.
I will just mention one area out of many. One would expect successive Nigerian governments to put in place processes for the positive exploitation of the intellectual capital of the Diaspora through knowledge and technology transfer.
Many Nigerians in the diaspora are engaged in high-tech industries in developed countries. They are placed in prime positions of acting as vehicles for appropriating such technologies for the developmental needs of the country. Moreover, many international companies are keen to enter the Nigerian market but would not do so as a result of an absence of local knowledge. Where such companies have found trustworthy Nigerian employees in the Diaspora who have imbibed their corporate values, willingness to transfer appropriate technologies to a Nigerian subsidiary may be forthcoming, an enormous advantage for the country given the fact that the local development of such technologies may be at a high cost and with an absence of appropriate skills to do so.
In comparison to other diaspora communities around the world, what are your observations regarding the progress and influence of Nigerians abroad? Why does Nigeria, despite its abundance of talent, still struggle? Why hasn’t the potential of Nigerians abroad translated into national development?
In attempting to tap the unquantifiable and enormous wealth that Nigeria has in its Diaspora, lessons can also be learnt from two major models of Diaspora-triggered regional/country development. The first is the Chinese model where the Chinese Diaspora used their considerable business experience and network connections to establish subsidiaries of major Western technological companies in China. The second model is the India model where the business and scientific acumen of the Diaspora was engaged actively not only in knowledge and technology transfer between India and the developed world but also in significant business deals resulting in technology and outsourced business call centres in India.
Nigeria totters in its national development because apart from paying lip service, not a single Nigerian government has sat down to draft and implement rigorously a strategic plan of utilising the Diaspora and the wealth embedded in it.
From experience, policymakers and influential Nigerians have contempt for, and resentment of, diaspora initiatives and suggestions that can make a positive difference in the lives of ordinary Africans.
You know how much Nigerians in the diaspora have been canvassing for the right to vote in national elections. The reluctance to allow those outside the shores of Nigeria to have a voice in the selection of those who lead the country is further reflected in the failure to follow the advice, guidance, and suggestions of Nigerians in the diaspora on socio-economic policies.
You regularly share commentaries on Nigeria’s sociopolitical situation. Why is this involvement important, and has it had any impact?
The obsession and sense of responsibility is because even now that my parents are dead, I have relatives and friends in Nigeria for whom I have the utmost concerns. I have many who look up to me one way or the other. What affects them affects me. This is the reason engagement in discussions relating to socio-political developments back in Nigeria is of high importance to me. I have been politically active in voicing my opinion since 1989 as a youth corper working for Standard Newspapers. While my engagements may not be significant, the fact that I voice out my feelings when I see the need to do so enables my conscience to be at peace that I have done what I can to ensure things are done properly.
As a prominent and influential social media intellectual, what is your perspective on the role of diaspora intellectuals in shaping public opinion and governance? There is a perception that Nigerians in the diaspora are in the habit of talking down their country…
I do not know if I am influential on social media. Nevertheless, I know I share my personal experiences, stories and perceptions hoping that one or two people may learn from them.
I do not agree that those of us in the diaspora are fond of talking down the country. Most of us voice our concerns from the standpoint of a passion for our land of birth, and the fact that we are affected in so many ways by negative happenings back home because we have relatives and friends there.
Many of us outside have had the opportunity to see and understand what true governance is, and how it can significantly increase the quality of life of the citizen. Our efforts to shape public opinion and governance are often seen from the prism of arrogance that we are behaving as if we are better than those left in the country. Unfortunately, this divisive, negative perception of “we and them” has not enabled cooperation and effective partnership working which is dearly needed for growth in the country. In place of focused constructive actions, what manifests is resentment, rivalry, and envy between those at home and those of us outside.
Given that you return to Nigeria regularly, what draws you back despite the existing socioeconomic challenges?
I was born, bred, and buttered as many would say, in Nigeria. I spent the first 21 years of my life there. The country gave me my educational foundations. Any ethical or moral values I hold were shaped within those years. I know Nigeria has potential and if not for irresponsible leaders, many of us would not be outside its shores. As such, I know Nigeria has tremendous potential if we can get our acts together, and I prefer being in a place where I am not seen as an outsider just because of the colour of my skin.
Let us talk about Nigerians in the diaspora and investment opportunities back home. What are the issues? Have you made any investments yourself and what would you counsel Nigerians in the diaspora who are looking at doing business back home?
Many in the diaspora are wary of losing their hard-earned money in the quest to invest in Nigeria. Sadly, we have lost tremendous ethical and moral values in Nigeria to the extent that finding reliable, honest, and trustworthy people has become difficult. I can tell you the experiences of friends who have lost millions trying to invest in Nigeria through partners they thought were honourable human beings.
I do not have any investment in Nigeria, and my counsel to those who want to do business back home is that they must be ready to be on the ground and oversee things. Even then, your presence is not a guarantee that your workers and those you have to interact with will not run down the business.
How can Nigerians abroad raise children who are sensitive to the global world while still maintaining their Nigerian cultural heritage, values, and traditions?
I emphasise the power of agreement between a husband and wife concerning the care and future of any child God bestows on them. It is a given that a child would interact outside using the language of the environment he or she finds himself/herself. Children would also observe and assimilate the cultural nuances of the environment in which they are living. By giving them the pedestal of your language and cultural upbringing to compare moral, ethical, and societal values, one can raise balanced children who are empathetic and globally sensitive as well as responsible.
Let us compare the migration trends of the earlier years – say when you first travelled – and now. What are the defining characteristics and what do they imply?
The most paramount factor for voluntary migration by Nigerians is in alignment with Social Darwinism – the need to survive as an individual through the exploration of envisaged and anticipated better opportunities in a foreign land. Indeed, migration is now seen as an integral part of the survival strategy of many households, with decisions being made for a member of the family to find his or her way to a foreign land with express obligations of sending money and goods back to those left behind. In this light, migration has become an adjustment mechanism with enormous socio-economic and cultural implications for each Nigerian family concerned.
The increase in the “Japa” syndrome as you have alluded to is caused by numerous factors not limited to economic recession, political instability, perceived insensitivity of leaders and governments to their civic responsibilities, decaying educational systems, dilapidated infrastructures, and in some cases, civil conflict, and internal displacement.
The irony is that while our ancestors were forcefully carted away as labours during the slave trade, we are the ones now willingly fleeing our countries to offer our labour to foreign countries.
You once expressed concern about how Nigerians abroad are failing to raise children with strong cultural foundations, unlike Indian or Pakistani communities. Why is this happening? What can we learn from these communities, and how can we reverse this trend?
The failure to raise culturally steeped Nigerian students lies more with the Yoruba. You do not find the same trend among the Igbo or Hausa. I do not understand our reasons for wanting to be more catholic than the Pope. Some have asked me if it is a sense of inferiority that makes us promote the speaking of English over our native language, and I honestly do not have an answer to the question.
The truth is that in a multicultural environment where English is an official language of communication, your children would learn how to converse in it. I remember my children’s paediatrician admonishing us to ensure we speak Yoruba to the children because apart from their speaking English being a given, communication in Yoruba with them develops their brains and enables them to acquire the capability of quickly learning so many other languages.
What I have learnt from watching the Indians, the Chinese, etc is that when many of them who have never been to India or China speak their language, they are as fluent in it as they are fluent without any accent in English. Rather than diminishing the prowess of their children, the cultural and language training from home enhances their ability and confidence to compete wherever they step without being ashamed of their cultural and linguistic background.
After over three decades of sojourn abroad, what are the key lessons you have learnt about life?
Life is what you make of it. Being in the diaspora may present you with a variety of opportunities, but it is your responsibility to seize such opportunities and make particularly good use of them.
Let us talk about Nigeria. What would be your prescriptions for steering the ship to its rightful place?
I have operated in the business analysis world for several years. The pathway to success in finding the solution to a system that has failed or is failing is to find out the root cause of the failure. Why is this system failing? When and where did it start? How can we reverse the failure?
Concerning Nigeria, my view is that we have a leadership problem. Do we prepare folks for leadership in the public sector and political space? To what extent do those who lead us or seek to lead us understand the entity called Nigeria and have a clear understanding of the challenges faced by the country? Do they see where the gaps are? Have they identified how the challenges and gaps can be overcome? What resources are needed to address challenges? Is there a political will to align the right resource without prejudice of race, ethnicity, religion, etc to the appropriate challenge to ensure its resolution? Do we have political leaders that prepared, proactive, responsive, responsible, accountable and listening?
The failure of leadership has resulted in the ship of Nigeria listing. Until we get our leadership recruitment into political office right, where occupants of political office are concerned about positive legacies rather than the privilege and spoils of office, Nigeria will not fulfil its potential or manifest its destiny.
If you could advise your 18-year-old self, what would it be?
I would echo what my parents told me as I grew up.
You are unique. You must determine your standards and live by them. The moment you begin to live by the dictate and standards of others, you have become an inferior being. Life is filled with challenges. You must learn to surmount them while you keep focus on where you want to be and what you want to achieve in life. In surmounting life’s challenges, do not cut corners. Always live above board. Your surname is not yours, as such, you must guard it jealously because a negative aspersion on it has untoward consequences for those with whom you share or would share that surname. Trust God, and commit your ways to his hands. Whatever is put in your hands to do, do it diligently, reliably and with honesty so that your efforts can be crowned with unblemished successes.
